About me

I play a paladin. These are my ramblings about what's going on with my character Denethal in the game.

Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Am I evil when it comes to loot?

As I always do when queuing up for instances, I pick the roles my specs allow me to participate as.
Where it was protection and retribution, (tank or spank for the ones not familiar with paladin talent trees,) it is now protection and holy.

There are a few trinkets that I want from a very spesific "gear-me-up" instance, namely Trial of the Crusader. The trinkets are Tears of the Vanquished, which is for my healing spec and The Black Heart, where both drop from the last boss in there, The black knight.

I've always been of the mindset that if a piece of gear is a valid upgrade for one of my gearsets, I will need on it. Doesn't matter if it's in a raid environment or an 5-man instance. If it's an epic, I will need on it, provided that it is infact an upgrade that I can benefit from.

To quote the seagulls from Finding Nemo:
And damned be the rest of the party.

So when the Black Heart dropped, I , of course, needed on it. It's an upgrade to my tanking set and is one of the reasons I actually queued up for the instance for in the first place. Since 3 of the rest of the party were from the same realm, I'm guessing they joined up together to get the trinket for their tanking buddy. They all needed, being a druid, a deathknight and a warrior, so they were all eligible for it.

I won.

This didn't go well with the tank, nor with his friends. With a bunch of "WTF", "lol healr need?" and the likes, they all wanted me to trade it to them. Atleast that's what I'm guessing, since they were opening trades with me and demanding that the tank would get it, as it was mainspec for him.
The tank was more worthy of having the trinket than I was, since he, after all, was the tank. Quite the sensible logic. If you're a social retard.

So I said no.
And while I'm fully aware that I could just part the group and be done with them there and then, I switched to my tanking gear and updated my gearset, so that it would be easy to equip later on. That wardrobe function is great to have.

And this caused even more drama, as they were still hanging around, appearantly hoping I'd still hand it over.
The reason for the increased amount of drama turned out to be that I had better gear than the tank and that I should be nice and let him have it, as it would be a greater upgrade for him.

When I still said no, they started to behave like internet tough guys. Going to find me, report me, etc, etc, etc.

In their eyes, I'm the evil guy. The bastard son of an motherless ogre. The oneheaded kind with a horn on it's forehead. The dreaded "ninja".

I left after giving them this phrase:
It's an upgrade to me and I'm not sorry to say screw you, your friends and whomever you may be related to, you're of no importance to me and infact, this is the first time I ever team with you. I have just as much right to whatever piece of gear that drops in the instance as any of the rest of you, mainspec or not.
I'm not evil. I'm in need of upgrades. And I don't have to justify it to anyone I group with. Especially not strangers I'm not likely to ever meet again.

But of course, with the need before greed system enforced upon you when using the LFG tool, that's not always possible. Most of the times, I can only hit greed and hope I win, especially since I'm an enchanter.

I'm actually considering dropping enchanting due to this. That by simply having it, I have to watch so many upgrades being sharded infront of my eyes, by a profession that everyone was given free access to.


  1. Unless loot rules are stated clearly at the beginning of a run (dungeon, raid, doesn't matter), you can roll whatever you want, especially now that the system prevents you from rolling need on gear you can't equip (if you're rolling need for the sole purpose of vendoring, though, you are kind of a jerk). Upgrades are upgrades, and in LFG everything is fair game.

  2. I wish there were screenshots about those annoying punks.

  3. No, no, no!

    It has nothing do to with social nonsense or whatever. Loot rules are ALWAYS main spec before off spec. Main spec is ALWAYS the spec you currently use in that particular run. If you want the Tank item, then join as Tank. Simple as that.

    It's just a convention of the game and it has been so ever since the very beginning - and for good reasons, too. There are many unwritten rules that apply, and this is just another one. Whether you like it or not. Same goes for proper talent choice, gems, enchants and so on. The game itself does not force anyone to consider these aspects. The players on the other hand do. Same goes for loot distribution.

    The annoying behaviour of the "punks" is of course stupid, but still understandable.

    I totally agree with the thing about Enchanting. That really sucks!

  4. @Gevlon: I don't have the habit of screenshotting and it didn't occur to me that I ought to do it for the laugh.

    @John: Why is it like that? Because you say so? Why should I worry about "unwritten" rules when they are only a way to enforce "justification to a piece of gear" made by people who wants to make me do more runs for that piece myself, so that they don't have to?

    Why should I waste -more- time in an instance for a piece of gear than I have to?

    If I want to gear up a spec, I can't just sign up as that role in a heroic without having gear to do the instance in the first place.

    What you're basically telling me, is that -your- time is worth more than mine, -your- subscription is worth more than mine. And I should give up that piece of gear that's an upgrade to me, to prove exactly that.

    That's a very wrong assumption to make.

  5. Well, rules in LFG are stated by Blizzard I guess - Need before Greed and that's it. Anything else is personal courtesy.

    But I don't really understand why are you farming the instance as a healer when tanks have zero waiting time (unless you enjoy healing as paladin (ugh) or want practice (understandable)).

  6. @Last anonymous: Please read the first paragraph of the post. I queue as the roles I can fulfill with my current talent specs. At the moment, I've set them to healer and tank.

    I just happened to end up as healer for that particular run.

  7. Also, here's a premise I don't accept:

    "The reason for the increased amount of drama turned out to be that I had better gear than the tank and that I should be nice and let him have it, as it would be a greater upgrade for him."

    So let's say the drop in question is ilvl 232, you've got a 219 piece and the other guy has 200. Sure, it's a bigger upgrade for him, but he also has more drops available to him as an upgrade, so his chances of getting an upgrade are higher than yours (he can get the 219 piece you have, for example). As I said before, unless you're rolling Need on something you really don't need and or going to vendor/shard, it's completely fair game.

  8. Denethal - I do understand the point you are trying to make, but..

    .. Until LFG, we all used to play in our own private playgrounds. Our realms were isolated and took on their own unique personalities. I know from spending time on 3 or 4 different realms that most of them (even in heroics) would use MS>OS for loot. A tank would roll only on tank loot, or ask if he/she could role on offspec. It's still VERY common and courteous to do so.

    What you've done is to go against what for many players if 5 years of entrenched etiquette and however you try to justify yourself, you can't deny that in the eyes of many, it was rude and selfish.

    I have always abided by these "unwritten laws" as a tank, dps and healer. Very rarely have I seen someone roll OS>MS, and if done, the whole group would rage at the "ninja" that rolled need on OS, when it was an upgrade for someone as MS.

    In your ideal world, perhaps things work differently, but I can assure you, most of the time, in my experiences, things work differently and what you have done would be frowned upon my the majority.

  9. @Everlook's Ever Looker:

    Back in the days, you were forced to gather parties on your own. Loot rules were set before you left for the instance and offspec were not really something you'd bother with, since it would cost you 50g every time you respecced.

    Back then, it was way more profitable to gather gear noone else in the raid wanted and start off with your offspec gear like that.

    The social interaction was way more prominent than it is today. It is faster, more efficient to queue up for the instance that will drop the piece of gear you want than it is to spam trade or guild for it.

    And let's face it, most of the time, most of the others, even in the guild, won't bother to come along if you ask them. Because unless there's something in the dungeon you want to go that they want, then they can't be arsed to spend time in there.

    So if other people can't be arsed to do a run that I want, for the item I want and this is true even among friends, then why should I care what some random strangers will think if I do roll on an item I'm after?

    The social interaction that "wrote" those unwritten rules of yours is gone. You're lucky to get a "hi" or "bye" from the partymembers.

    And really.. "your ideal world"?
    In your ideal world, everyone is probably holding hands and do not mind doing mindboggingly boring instances over and over with you, just so you can get that piece of gear you want, even if they don't get anything in return. Except being "nice".

    And as you may know.. "Nice guys finish last."

  10. Dude that is kind of an ass move.

  11. @Andy: And the 3 DPS rolling for their friend is not kind of an ass move?


  12. People like you are the reason for the tank shortage

  13. @last anonymous: The tank shortage is quite easy to remedy. Start playing one yourself.

    But you won't. You prefer to put the blame elsewhere and in this case, you actually put the blame on a person who's mainspec is protection.

    Smart fellow.

  14. My first thought was, "wait, all 4 guys needed on a tank trink to give to their buddy"? People can say what they want about what you did (and I might be inclined to agree with some of them), but by all needing,the people in the group completely negated their ability to call you the ninja.

    If one of the dps had won, they would have traded to the tank right in front of you and lol-good luck next time.

  15. I have two tanks I've levelled and raided with as protection (warrior and paladin). Me and many other tanks have stopped pugging because of the constant abuse we have to take from clueless pug dps, or in this particular case, the healer. Paladins are rolling on everything because "I have actually 3 specs lol".

    You sum it up pretty well though, "Mine!" is the keyword for all Lich King fanboys whether it's cried towards Blizzard or other players.

  16. It is funny how you portray me as a clueless player. Yet, you claim to be a tank.

    I call bullshit on your comment. Pure.

    In your world, everyone is friends, everyone puts -you- over themselves, but you can simply not fathom the thought of others queuing up for specific instances for very specific drops.

    The -only- reason I were going to normal ToC5 were those two trinkets. According to your logic, I'm not allowed to actually roll on the items I'm there for in the first place. And it doesn't matter for you what specs I do have.

    I dread to think how you treat new tanks. People who've just dinged 80 in their quest DPS gear and need to start gearing up for the spec they leveled their character all the way there for.
    According to -your- logic, they are not allowed to roll on items that's an upgrade to their tanking or healing set. Only items for their damagedealing gear is allowed rolled on.

    It is people like you, the commenters, who cause tank and healer shortage. Not the ones rolling need on tanking or healer items, so that they -can- become a viable one.

    Because in your fantasy world, you alone are the hero, everyone else is just a henchman or NPC, there to do your bidding.

    A social fallacy.

  17. "What you're basically telling me, is that -your- time is worth more than mine, -your- subscription is worth more than mine. And I should give up that piece of gear that's an upgrade to me, to prove exactly that."

    No. In the present case, YOU are puttig yourself at a higher value to get gear from out of spec because you did the run too. How would you feel if in your next raid you go as heals, a shadow priest would get a healing pieces even if it's an upgrade just because it is also and upg for his own healing set? You'd be all cool with that? He killed the boss just as you did anyway.

  18. Your example is so flawed that it's not even funny. But to give you an answer:

    Yes. It IS perfectly fine with me, as I participate in GDKP runs and not loot council runs.

    If the priest outbids me, I gain gold. If I outbid him, he gain gold and I get the item.