About me

I play a paladin. These are my ramblings about what's going on with my character Denethal in the game.

Saturday, August 28, 2010

Saturday morning thoughts: Raiding in World of Warcraft with the Pug.

As of late, I haven't really had the time to run instances, not even the daily for the frost emblems. Nor have I had much time to spend on raiding or exploring content.

It would be hard to qualify to most guilds with my work and life-schedule, as they normally operate with DKP systems and attendance requirements to bid on items. It was like that back on my old server, Argent Dawn and it is like this on Agamaggan.
Except in The Pug.
I've been to two raids this week. One with Treeston as raidleader, a 25-man ICC run, where we called it at PP. It went smoothly, but there's always room for improvement and adjusting specs, glyphs and what not. Mistakes do happen, you may screw up something and cause the whole raid to die.

For instance,  I discovered that my addons does not warn me when to taunt off the other tank when they reach a certain stack of debuffs, which didn't wipe us, but it did cause some frantic stress on the other tank as well as on some of his healers. We solved this problem by having the tank whisper me when to taunt, as the amount of buffs on his playerframe really is too many small icons.

At Festergut, both me and the other tank, Kortias made mistakes. More spesifically, he had slacked a bit too much on the aggro part, so when he taunted Festergut off me at 9 stacks, he was too far behind me on threat to actually keep it once the taunt wore off, which caused me to reach 10 stacks and go *blammo*.

My fault was not to apply Hand of Salvation on myself to lower my threat-level, which caused me, even with just autoattack, to stay above Kortias. I should have stopped doing damage fully, but with Divine Plea with a 30 seconds left of it's cooldown, I choose to just autoattack and keep it up, so that my mana would fill up again.
I know, it's a moot point to do so, seeing as we had plenty of classes that provided replenishment, but being all too adjusted to 10-man raids only made me forget that in the heat of the battle.

No matter, Festergut died and so did Rotface. First time ever for me to kite the big oozes around and I'll dare say that I did an advequate job at it too. If you don't look at me having to backtrack to pick up another big ooze that people managed to create and then whine about there being a big ooze in the middle of the raid, that is.. But he died at the end. So did Rotface. :)

Got myself some new gear and actually broke even in terms of gold after repairs and expenses for flasks. Take that, normal DKP system! In your face! New gear, all raid expenses covered and no sour faces!
Others reported having earned 5000 gold in the raid, since they were 2nd bids and otherwise didn't get any loot.

Sounds too good to be true, no? Well, it is true.

My 2nd raid was ICC again, with Gevlon's raid. I came home late and noticed that they were looking for someone for PP and off I went. But that's described in an earlier post.

I did notice something that I should have noticed earlier, though. After I respecced back to retribution from holy, I had completely forgotten about the glyphs part of the respec, so I've been running around with improved bacon of light and other holy paladin glyphs. Certainly no retribution based glyphs, that's for sure.

All fixed now, though. Stupid of me, but.. Mistakes can and should be rectified. They are allowed to happen, but never ever let them become recurring mistakes. Then you are nothing but a moron and a slacker, to put it in a goblinish term.


  1. My understanding is that if the other tank had done zero threat, and you were at 600k threat, than after taunting you would both be at exactly 600k threat. So, then to pull aggro you would need to reach ((600k + whatever he threat he did in the next 10 seconds)* 110%). Assuming you didn't deactivate righteous fury, which you should have done but didn't mention, and had auto-attacks plus your seal going at 190% damage due to your 9 stacks, that's not that easy to do but maybe the other tank missed or was parried a few times? Without seeing the log, there's no way to tell exactly, for all I know a holy paladin HoS'd the wrong tank by mistake, or a rogue/hunter trick's/MD'd the wrong tank by mistake. I generally HoS myself to be safe, but if you click righteous fury off it basically is impossible to pull aggro even with the 90% damage buff from stacks, in my experience.

  2. A taunt is a temporay boost to threat, not a permanent one. After the 6 seconds are up, it's back to whomever is highest on the threat scale. Unless I'm mistaken, of course, but that's how I know the mechanics to be at the time being.

    Good tip about the righteous fury, I'll make sure to implement it on our next go at Festergut. :D

    I learn something new every day..

  3. No, a taunt will give you the same amount of the threat as the highest person on the threat list. Something like Challenging Roar or Mocking Blow on the other hand forces whatever it is to attack you for X amount of seconds before it reverts back to attacking its original target unless you've managed to override that person's threat within that time.

  4. It seems that you are completely correct in your information, so thank you for the information.

    It's nice to know such things and I should obviously have picked up that part earlier.

  5. Taunt gives you 100% threat but if you don't get to a certain % higher than the person you're taunting off you will lose the mob. That's the way it used to work anyway, its why if you taunt a mob and no one hits it (including you) it goes back to the last person.

  6. As a tank who loves theory crafting I have the following to say about taunts:

    A Full taunt like Hand of reckoning will do
    1) set your threat equal to the current target's threat
    2) Fixate the target on you for 3 seconds, forcing it to attack you.

    After those 3 seconds the mob follows normal threat rules which means it can change targets if someone at melee range has gone up to 110% of your threat or 130% for people +20 yards away then the mob will target them. A mob will not simply go back to it's previous target unless that target provokes them enough to break the threat swap thresholds above.

    There are also pseudo taunts that only have a fixate portion and you will have to produce enough threat manually to keep the attention of the mob after the fixate wears off. Mocking blow is an example of such an ability.

    As for the festergut fight, you should disable RF at the tank swap or just before and your cotank shouldn't have issues as long as they are competent. A HoSalv on yourself never hurts though, especially if you are going to be using AW at that point like I like to do.

    One last mechanic that you could have used in that situation is that you're a paladin! A Divine shield can clear the debuff for you and thus let you continue tanking, useful usually if you find that your cotank has been allowed to die. I wouldn't do this as part of a normal kill (unless you one tank normal kills) as the dps loss from clearing your debuff is not insignificant.

  7. In addition to 2 point you listed there is 3rd point
    3) taunt makes mob to have aggro on taunter

    Mobs do not attack the player with the highest threat. Mobs do attack the player who has aggro. If you are in melee range of mob, you will gain its aggro when you reach 110% of threat it has on his current aggro target. If you are not in melee range, you pull agro upon reaching 130% threat of current aggro target.

    Taunt, on the other hand, transfers aggro target directly. Player who taunts acquires 100% of threat of previous aggro target (not 110% or 130%) but acquires mob's aggro regardless.

    There is 3rd effect as well, taunt forces the mob to attack the taunter for 3 seconds, no matter what happens (if in those 3 seconds someone suddenly aquires 200%, 500%, billion % threat of taunter, mob will continue to attack taunter until taunt debuff wear off).

    In this case of Festergut, either the n00b paladin tank didn't stop attacking with 90% damage increase coupled with 60% RF aggro increase (could have turned RF off if wanted mana so desperately), or the oter n00b tank used wrong skill (not a taunt, but 6-second distraction skill).

  8. I advice you to go and read up on tanking and how to do it.

    We cannot have raid tanks who are M&S in our guild.

    //Member of The PuG

  9. If you are having problems picking up debuffs on your tanking partner I suggest you change your raid frames in your UI. I use XPerl, and have it configured to not show targetoftarget's buffs, only the debuffs.

    On a fight like fester, the tank will have at most 3 debuffs - inoculated, another one that I can't remember, and gastric bloat. You will only have three icons to make sense of, and only one of these has any significant stacking on it, so it's pretty easy. This works really well for me.

  10. @last anonymous: You're welcome to take up any issues you have with my tanking in the game. There haven't been any wipes yet due to me misunderstanding how taunt works.

    In fact, I would rather say that because of it, I've been paying more attention to the threatmeters than I have to now.

    Real M&S material, I take it.

    @Everblue: Im working on fixing and configurating DBM, as it seems to only randomly give out the warning messages lately.

    Haven't had any real issues after I've agreed with the other tank to notify me with a macro when it's time for me to taunt, though.

  11. @ Anonymous

    Him not knowing the exact mechanics behind something he has mastered doing does not make him a bad tank or M&S. Shame on you for talking that way to one of your brethren while hiding your face.