About me

I play a paladin. These are my ramblings about what's going on with my character Denethal in the game.

Thursday, September 16, 2010

Gevlon's GDKP and "Progress raid" rules: A deal worth making if you can't join from start?

GDKP is a nice system. It rewards everyone for coming, provided there's any loot dropping that people want. It's also a nice incentive for making people stay through wipes, especially if there is some gold in the pot already.

But there have been done modifications to it in "The Pug", namely in Gevlon's raids. Some of wich I don't approve of. Raiding with Gevlon, the raids are divided up into 3, as there are 3 breaks. People are free to pick up their share and leave at the break. The rest of the pot stays until the raid itself ends for the night.

So far so good, right? It should be fairly easy to motivate people to get locked to that raid ID with a nice pot, despite people having dropped out in a break with their share.
How it works in these raids, is that you only get your share of the pot of the bosses you are part of taking down.  The pot for the rest can be a couple of thousand gold for each of those who were in it from the start, but for you who join late for some reason, there is no pot.

In other words, unless you're there for frost badges or the bosses you're about to take on drop something you're after, there's absolutely no incentive to get locked to that raid ID. At all. You are better off joining or organizing your own ICC pugs with people from trade.

I voiced my concerns over this in the guildchat and had people supporting me, as I claimed that this is only a deal favorable for those who joined early and a really, really bad deal for those who join late and getting their raid ID locked, as the latecommers will have to wait a whole week for a chance to take down the first bosses which drop the high-bid items.

There were some arguments where it was voiced concerns that the original version of GDKP would only reward those who joined late and thus noone would join when the raid was beginning and thus, no raid would form. This all due to we all supposedly being goblins ourselves.

This kind of backward logic belongs not to a goblin, but a person that's willing to make bad deals. Ergo, a moron.

A goblin would get most out of joining a raid late and get a shot at the pot, that much is true. But a goblin also sees the benefits of being in the raid early: Frost emblems, loot, 2nd in the bidwar and a guaranteed spot as long as he does not slack enough for other raidmembers to notice.

(But trust me on this, if you keep ramming your head into the door trying to open it on bosses with tactics explained both with their own strategyguides and videos on the net, then you are both clearly slacking and being a moron.)

And he can leave at the first break with a nice share of the pot if the first bosses drops something nice, leaving the rest to figure out how to do the tactics on their own and join again at a later time, when the rest got the tactic nailed and (s)he only have to tag along and try not to screw up overly. And (s)he can be perfectly honest about not knowing exactly when to do what and get away with it.

A goblin would join early exactly because of these benefits, compared to joining late on a "progression raid".
Sure, (s)he might get lucky and get in at the end, wipe a few times and collect the share of pot, but it's not really a viable tactic for a goblin.

We agreed that I would not join a "progress raid" in progress again, simply because of the price to have my raid ID locked for a full week with little to nothing to show for it was a deal not worth putting my signature on.

Now, some of you are probably going to spew out the usual "You're free not to raid" and so on, but before you do, please think about how much a week worth of raiding lost is worth to you, if you have no time to join the raid early each time.

Also, this does not mean I won't join in on any of Gevlon's raids. He's an excellent raid leader and I don't mind raiding. This is just pure business and nothing personal between me or any other members of The Pug. And that is exactly as it should be.
Pure business.


  1. I really don't get the motivation behind the gold distribution at breaks. It's a rather social one. He doesn't want to force people to stay and want's to make sure the raid starts.

    Any rational guy would leave after first break if even 3 guys leave under Gevlon's rules

    After that the risk of nothing dropping is higher and higher.

    The biggest advantadge by far of a GDKP run is not the gold it can produce, but the ease of replacing AFK/slackers. If someone has to leave he drops his pot (he already gained frosts/chance of bidding on gear), and the guy who join has a big motivation to come and stay EVEN if no boss dies.

    Bad deal to join his runs if the break rule stays. Just make your own.

  2. So you want part if the pot from bosses you didn't help kill?

  3. @Kauzmo: That's how the original GDKP system works.

    The pot is the incentive to join a raid in progress. Keep in mind that if I join, I'm skipping bosses, who may drop loot that's highly desirable for me, as well as Emblems of Frost.

    Or we could put it like this: You and your raid is at the Lich King on a thursday evening, you got the tactics nailed down and only lack a tank or a melee damagedealer and you see me getting online.

    I join, we kill the Lich King in our first attempt and nothing worth anything drops. You get some daggers that the rogue already got.

    In this example I would get roughly zero gold and I can not join another raid for a full week until it's reset.

    Now, this is a really bad deal for me. I've sold a week worth of potential raiding for nothing.

    But, if I would be getting an equal share of the pot as everybody else would, that would be a fair compensation for losing out on a lot of gear, Emblems of Frost and quest items.

    After all, I'm postponing -my- advancement in the game a whole week for your accommodation.

    An excellent deal for you, of course. Not so much for me.

    What Gevlon's version of the GDKP-system provides of incentive to join late is.. well.. nothing.

    It is basically punishing people for stepping in to cover for people leaving at the breaks.